In this month's webinar Caroline Reidy, MD of the HR Suite and Julie Holmes of Legal Island, discuss the crucial topic of employee wellbeing during the festive season including:

• Addressing challenging weather scenarios when they impact your workforce
• Supporting employees with sensitive issues like domestic violence
• Get ready to expertly manage your company's Christmas celebrations, ensuring a memorable and trouble-free experience for all.

Why not gather your team around and watch as part of a training session?

Recording:

Transcript:

Julie:   Good morning, everybody. Welcome to our webinar "Winter is Coming: Wellbeing During the Festive Season". My name is Julie and I work in the Knowledge Team at Legal-Island. And today's guest is Caroline Reidy, Managing Director of The HR Suite.

Morning, Caroline. Thanks for being here.

Caroline:  Morning, Julie. Great to be here. Thank you.

Julie:  Thank you. And we just want to thank everyone as well for deciding to spend some time with us today.

So, I'm going to tell you a little bit about Caroline. Some of you have joined us before, but those of you that haven't, you may want a bit of background information.

Caroline's a past member of the Low Pay Commission and also an adjudicator in the Workplace Relations Commission. She is CIPD accredited, as well as being a trained mediator. She has worked across various areas of HR for over 20 years before setting up The HR Suite. And I will say after meeting her at our Annual Review quite recently, she is one of the most stylish dressers that you will ever meet.

Caroline:  Oh, thanks, Julie.

Julie:  That's enough about fashion. You can ask Caroline those questions later on. In today's webinar, Caroline is going to look at some of the challenges faced by HR during the festive season. And hopefully you haven't had too many thrown your way already.

So, I just want to thank MCS Group, who sponsor Legal-Island's webinars and podcasts. MCS help people find careers that match their skill sets perfectly. They also support employers to build high-performing businesses by connecting them with the most talented candidates in the marketplace. If you're interested in finding out more about how MCS can help you, then head to www.mcsgroup.jobs.

So, today we're looking at the winter season, but I also just wanted to mention that at Legal-Island, we're always looking ahead and we've also just announced our spring 2024 event schedule. You'll find that we've got topics like AI training specifically tailored to HR, and we also have a repeat of our sell-out mock WRC adjudication hearing, and legal answers to some of HR's top day-to-day dilemmas.

Those are all the events that you can look at between January and March, and you can get a full list on our website. The website is www.legal-island.ie/events.

Now, just a note. I know that we're showing you some slides at the moment, but there are no slides for Caroline's presentation. We will have the recording available for you, though, shortly. So, don't worry about that.

Again, because this is an interactive session, we want to hear from you. So, if you have any questions, please pop them into the question box and we'll have time at the end for as many of those questions as we can possibly get through.

So, to get you warmed up today, I'm going to ask Maria if you could share our first poll question, please. And while that's just coming up, we're talking about a wide range of topics today.

So, there's the first question on your screen. When we talk about adverse weather, what is the HSA guidance on minimum temperatures for the workplace? Is it that there's no minimum temperature? Is it between 18 to 23 degrees? Is it 16 to 17.5 degrees? Or is it up to every employer to promote a minimum safe temperature of five degrees?

So, make sure that you vote for us, and we'll see. Great. We've got 60% of people who chose the answer 16 to 17.5 degrees. Again, that's for an office environment, and the variance is due to the different types of tasks being done. Great.

Maria, if you could bring up the second one. So, we'll talk a little bit more about adverse weather in just a moment. Sorry. Poor Maria. I'm really putting her through her paces here with all these polls.

Caroline is going to talk about a very important topic of domestic abuse leave today. So, take a look at this question for us. Do you need to ask employees to provide written evidence to take domestic abuse leave? Depending on what you've heard, maybe what you've read so far . . .

So, Caroline, you've got a well-tuned-in group. One hundred per cent of people know that nobody needs to provide written evidence for that. So, thank you very much for letting us know that and for Caroline to know where to pitch her talk at.

And then, Maria, last question, please. Now, this is a difficult one. Employees who are on sickness leave should not be invited to work Christmas events. If they're off, you're giving them time to recover. Is that true or is that false? So, again, just take a moment. All right. Again, everybody is on the ball this morning and we've got false at 90%. We'll talk a little bit about all those festive dilemmas in just a moment.

So, for the moment, what I'm going to do is hand over to Caroline, and then we'll come back up a little bit later on and all the questions that you have will be answered. Well, as many as we can get through. All right, Caroline, over to you.

Caroline:  Super. Thanks, Julie. Good morning, everybody, and many thanks for so many of you making the time to be with us this morning. I know it's a busy week on the pre-lead-up to Christmas, so thank you for your time.

So, this morning, I'm going to cover some top tips around kind of topical questions and queries that we get around this time of year linked to Christmas and seasonality.

And ultimately, I suppose, as Julie said, any questions that you have, we'd be delighted to answer them at the end of the webinar. So, please pop them into the chat and we'll cover them off then.

So, I suppose in no particular order, I've picked 10 kind of key areas that come up for us a lot, the first one being the Christmas party.

Many of you have already had your Christmas parties, or if you haven't, you're due to have them. Christmas parties obviously are back in full force and people are organising different types of events.

So, really important that we remember from a health and safety perspective, everybody has an obligation, both the employer and the employees, just to remind everybody about the management of intoxicants at work and at work events.

So, again, just remind people in advance of going to any of these events in a very nice way to say, "Look, we want everybody to enjoy themselves, but our values around dignity and respect still apply and we want to ensure that everybody feels inclusive and there are no potential issues".

Remember that vicarious liability means that you're obliged to do all you can in the lead-up to Christmas to make sure that there are no issues.

And other kinds of issues just to be mindful of are cultures, different cultures around Christmas, inappropriate comments, inappropriate gestures, etc., that one person may take offence. Remember, in line with the equality legislation, religion and religious beliefs are one of the equality grounds. So, again, just reminding people to be respectful of people's different views and values around this seasonal time.

Also, many offices do Kris Kindle, or they do the Christmas lunch that involves a Kris Kindle. So, if that is the case, just again remind people that the appropriateness of presents needs to be in keeping with the code of conduct that you would expect around dignity and respect.

So, again, we want people to have positive banter, etc., but oftentimes you can see that those presents, especially if they're anonymous, can actually be quite targeted and hurtful and can cause upset. The intent might have been for banter, but the person receiving it feels that that is an affront to their dignity and respect. So, again, just a reminder around that.

Same to mention social media. Just to be conscious that taking pictures, posting pictures on social media, comments on WhatsApp groups, etc., making sure, again, that it's all respectful and it's all in keeping with our overarching value around dignity and respect.

And many of you this year will have done dignity and respect and diversity and inclusion training for your staff. It's something that I know we've done a huge amount of training this year more than ever before. And companies that have done it previously wanted to do refreshers because they've really seen the whole concept of reminding people and the need to remind people to be more aware of how their behaviour may impact on others. So, a big focus on dignity and respect, and diversity and inclusion.

You heard me mention intoxicants as part of the Christmas parties, and I suppose more and more so we're seeing employers introducing alcohol and intoxicant policies that will include potential testing.

And if this is something that you need to do, you need to go through some steps to do so, which involve doing a risk assessment, making sure that you consult, making sure that you draft the policy, make sure you treat people fairly, and you have an appropriate company doctor and process in place.

And again, really worthwhile reviewing and considering, because without doubt we're seeing a big increase in the work environment around the area of intoxicants, and particularly serious intoxicants where cocaine and other serious issues are over-spilling into work. So, again, something for 2024 that you may want to think about if it's not in place already.

Many of you will also be taking advantage of the maximum €1,000 tax-free Christmas bonus that you can give your staff. Again, it's up to you to decide how much you want to give and how you give that, but you have that option to do so.

And again, I think it's one of those goodwill gestures to show that appreciation to the team and help them. I suppose at this time of year that the extra tax-free amount is very welcome, and it's one of the few tax-free initiatives that you can give your team. So, again, food for thought.

I suppose it's also the time of year that we potentially will have people absent for varying reasons, and absenteeism can be linked to anything. You may have people who are long-term absent with you already, which they may be out due to an illness. They may be absent because they're on statutory leave, for example, maternity leave, etc. Make sure that you engage with them at this time of year for a number of reasons.

Remember, they're potentially entitled to receive some of their bonus. Or if their bonus is just linked to service, you may need to think about that. Also, you might want to give them the option to come to any of the events that might be happening to make them feel included. So, again, any Christmas parties or any Christmas lunches, etc.

Indeed, they might want to just pop into the office to say hello to people. Again, I would give people that option, to say, "You're more than welcome should you wish to pop in once you feel well enough to do so". You're giving people that choice. So, don't forget those that are absent.

Also, it's the time of year that you potentially will have people who have inclement weather issues. We've seen very serious issues already this year with different storms. Again, make sure you've dusted off your inclement weather policy so people know what is the obligation linked to inclement weather. So, again, really important that that's in place.

Ultimately, I suppose, we spoke about Christmas parties, and what we don't want is to have somebody who has been out the night before and who is coming into work and they're still under the influence of an intoxicant from having been out, whether that's their Christmas party or a personal event.

Again, remind people of their obligation to ensure their safety and they're fully fit to do the job, particularly those that are doing a safety-linked job. Obviously, for everybody that applies, but particularly if they're, for example, driving a forklift or driving for work, etc. So, again, just be mindful of that.

I suppose we always remind people as well that Christmas is a difficult time of year for many, and reminding people that you've got your employee assistance programme in place. For a lot of people, they're really tired. They're really busy. There are lots of shopping lists and Santa lists, etc., to get done. And there's a lot of juggling going on. So, again, remind people that we're here to support them and remind people of the employee assistance programme.

Also, I suppose, it's the time of year that if people are working in certain sectors, like retail or public service or front-facing customers, it can be an additionally stressful time dealing with stressed customers, dealing with shoplifting, dealing with other types of issues from a work perspective that might be increased.

So, again, provide refresher training to help people, remind them how to handle these situations, remind them of the supports available, and remind them to let you know if there are specific issues linked to that.

I mentioned Christmas is a difficult time for many, particularly those that may have lost somebody during the year, it might be an anniversary, etc. So, again, many of you will have looked at doing grief training and reminders for people and your colleagues in terms of how to be sensitive and handle that in the work environment.

And I'm giving you loads of suggestions because these are the types of things that come up for us. With all of these suggestions, always the best approach is to have a very good policy, have good guidelines, but also to do follow-on training.

From a wellbeing perspective now, we know that when you do training on any of these areas, whether it's grief, whether it's domestic violence, whether it's any of the other areas that I'm touching on today, we know that people will end up having better conversations at work. They feel more supported at work and, overall, it'll be a better morale and a better work environment. And the same applies with diversity and inclusion and dignity and respect.

Again, I suppose just to highlight that domestic violence is . . . You're all familiar with the new legislation that has come in to give people five days' leave that is paid now for domestic violence.

Again, ensure you have your policy drafted, it's incorporated into your staff handbook, and that you do training as a follow-on from that.

I did my talk this year in Legal-Island linked to domestic violence. It's an area I'm really passionate about because far before this was introduced, we would be getting queries and issues from employers as to how they would support and deal with issues that have been raised by their employees about maybe domestic violence that they were experiencing.

So, my really strong advice to you is to think about doing some wellbeing training around domestic violence in 2024 if it's not on your radar already.

I think the training for HR practitioners and the training for colleagues is invaluable, and for managers. A lot of people, their instant reaction is the wrong reaction, which is to tell the person to leave. And in effect, that's actually not what our role is and it's not actually helpful to the person.

 So, again, think about doing your training in relation to that, because again, there's a possible increase over the Christmas period for many reasons in relation to domestic violence.

A few other key points, and then we'll open the floor to questions for everybody because I'm hoping that I've given you lots of food for thought there.

A reminder of your public holidays over Christmas. Every year, we send a reminder to clients in relation to how to calculate public holidays. But the WRC inspections have noted a particular increase in public holidays for part-time workers who work ad hoc hours being calculated incorrectly. So, again, whoever's doing your payroll, just make sure that they're doing that correctly and that they're managing it right.

Also, I suppose, review your Christmas cover to make sure that you're not spreading yourself too thin and you've got all your, obviously, key areas covered within the business, and you have a bit of contingency for sick leave, etc. Normally, the way it falls, people take different levels of time. And ultimately, that whole piece is really important in relation to that.

Also, I suppose the final piece is if your office is closed, make sure you turn off any equipment, you consider your GDPR, etc., and you consider your office temperatures.

So, there are your kind of key top tips for winter and Christmas, and I'm happy to take any questions, Julie, that people may have. I can deep dive into any or all of these further, but I felt it would be good to maybe do a whistle-stop tour initially and then we'll deal with the questions people have. I always think it's good to reward those that join the webinar and give them the chance to get their questions answered.

Julie:  Great. Well, you'd mentioned about adverse weather and the fact that we've had already so many winter storms. So, somebody's asked about what type of things HR should have in their policies around things like flexibility, where you get maybe one person coming in, one person who lives in the same area, so you think it would be all right, but they can't make it in. How you deal with people equitably, but still equally and fairly.

Caroline:  I suppose the main thing really is that you have the policy done before the storm happens. So, for example, everybody knows that if the office is opened, the expectation is people come into work. If the business chose to close the office, then the person gets paid because they can't physically go to work.

 But obviously, we always remind people that they must consider their own health and safety, and that health and safety is paramount. So, ultimately, that's the number one.

Nobody can choose to come into work. They can make the time back another time, they can take a day's holidays, whatever is required, but at least they're not stuck as a result of that. Is that okay?

Julie:  Yes. It's good.

Caroline:  So, I think that's probably one of the biggest things, really, for people to make sure that that fairness is there, Julie.

Julie:  Okay. Great. And then, again, when we're talking about health and safety . . . And again, we haven't really had much snow at the moment, but things like slips and trips as well. So, just being careful about premises and making sure that visitors and non-employees are also covered with that as well and not just thinking that it's only about people who work there. We have to think about others, too.

Okay. So, let's take a look then at domestic violence. You gave us a great overview there. So, first question was "Is this a day one right for all employees?"

Caroline:  So, for domestic violence it's literally as soon as somebody starts, they're entitled to their leave. So, there's no entitlement to service, etc. People can get the service from the very start.

Julie, you're going to kill me. I know this is a live webinar, but unfortunately there's a door that won't stop ringing. So, give me half a second, literally, which never happens. But this is what happens in "live TV", as they say. So, I mean literally half a second.

Julie:  It does indeed. Okay. So, while Caroline goes to see what Christmas delivery has come to the door and gets her shopping done, again, just remember that you can drop your questions into the chat for us to ask Caroline.

So, what we're going to do at the moment is talk a little bit about domestic violence. Most of you are already aware of the fact that you don't need to ask anybody for physical evidence for it, and Caroline has just confirmed the fact that it is a day one right to people.

I don't know about yourselves, but one of the things that is always a little bit difficult is about what types of records you should keep as well. So, again, just going to tie that . . .

Caroline:  Sorry.

Julie:  Thanks, Caroline. I hope that was my Christmas gift, Caroline, arriving. So, Caroline, I was just saying I'm hoping that that's my gift that was arriving. Oh, we can't hear you.

Caroline:  Apologies. There was nothing I could do. They wouldn't stop. So, it was either I answer it or you would continue to hear it in the background. Sorry about that.

Julie:  No problem at all.

Caroline:  Back to the questions, Julie.

Julie:  Yeah, we were just talking about domestic violence. So, some organisations may have things in, like safeguarding, already for adults or for children. And maybe there's a similarity between that and how HR should actually keep information about domestic violence or about records of people taking that leave. So, what's been your advice to people about that? Because it's a sensitive area.

Caroline:  It is. The requirement is to keep the records for the WRC under the legislation, in case you get an inspection, for up to three years. But the real advice, I suppose, is to make sure that it's done very sensitively and done very confidentially. So, making sure that people have different codes, for example, to make sure that . . . Are we there, Julie?

Julie:  Yeah.

Caroline:  Today is not our day from a technology and everything else perspective.

Julie:  That's what happens.

Caroline:  It's usually so well-oiled. So, those of you that are with us today, I hope you give us credit for the usual standard of smooth running. Sorry about today.

But the key thing, I suppose, is to make sure that you have very sensitive codes and very sensitive recordings. So, for example, somebody may ask, and quite typically they would ask, that you would confirm, for example, they're at work and they actually aren't. They're visiting a solicitor, etc. So, making sure that you've got the least amount of record required and also that you use a code that's very anonymous.

For example, you may need to tell the receptionist, "Look, Caroline is at a training course today", and then that's all that's told. You're not getting into any further detail.

And you have to be conscious from a payroll point of view as well that you're not recording it as domestic violence or anything that could imply that it is domestic violence leave the person is on.

Again, I suppose it's only when you kind of think through all those touch points to make sure that the person really is reassured that when they come to you, the matter will be dealt with confidentially so we don't put the person at any further risk.

Julie:  Definitely. As you say, it's a difficult subject to deal with and HR is great, really, about adapting. And you were talking about the employee assistance programme.

Can I just clarify, though, Caroline, as well? So, as you say, if somebody has to go off to the solicitor, maybe they're not absent for a whole day, but that would still count as a full day for the domestic abuse leave. Isn't that correct?

Caroline:  Absolutely, Julie. You're spot on. And again, it's five days in any given 12 months. So, obviously, it's a new 12 months starting shortly.

Julie:  All right. Great. And then one of the things that I know that we actually talked about a little bit at Annual Review was about the boundaries and about that balance between people trying to help and then also people going beyond that. I think that you summed it up really, really well. If you can maybe tell us a little bit about that or what advice you're giving to your clients at the moment.

Caroline:  Absolutely. I suppose the most important thing is we as humans have the need and desire to want to help. And sometimes we forget that this is a work context and we might be, for example, giving people offers of loans, encouraging people to leave the situation, etc. So, we're overstepping the mark because we're not in that person's situation.

So, our advice always is your job is to signpost and support, but you always leave the person in the driving seat because they're the expert of their own decision.

Some interesting, scary statistics, Julie, for everybody to remind them. Normally, if somebody is in a domestic violent relationship, that could be for up to 15 years. So, for many of our colleagues, they will be working with us for a very long period of time in this situation.

And another key piece of information, I suppose, is from the day they decide to leave, it normally takes them up to a year and a half before they actually leave.

So, again, very interesting statistics to show and support the fact that us telling the person what we think they should do, for example, isn't helpful. It's more to give them the time, give them the space, and give them the support, because they know what they need to do in these situations.

Julie:  Great. Thank you. That's a great summary about that.

And then you'd mentioned about Christmas parties, Caroline. Again, you're amongst friends. So, have you had many queries yet? I know that Christmas parties, it was just the time of year that you always thought, "Here we go". While everybody else was kind of levelling off, that was the time that HR was really waiting for the other shoe to drop, really.

Caroline:  Yeah, we've had a lot. More so than usual, probably, even, Julie. A lot are linked to cocaine, cocaine being one of the biggest concerns, I suppose, that is raising its head, where there's been either colleagues that have felt very uncomfortable with the behaviour or there's been inappropriate behaviour as a result of intoxicant use.

And I suppose, again, it's that piece that our responsibility is that vicarious responsibility to say, "We've done all we can."

Many people would say to me when we're doing the training, "Well, look, that won't happen here. People are very respectful". But taking inappropriate pictures, taking feedback from one person and passing it to another to say, "Did you realise that such and such was taking drugs?" and all of a sudden, that's something that somebody hears and there are allegations being made, etc.

There are a lot of those types of things happening. So, Christmas parties this year are definitely one of those concerning areas.

I suppose from a morale point of view, everybody is tired. It's the end of the year. Everybody wants to be able to let people enjoy themselves. And look, we just don't want people to not be aware of the potential risk and consequence of inappropriate behaviour.

The other thing that has come up a lot has been Kris Kindle, believe it or not, and presents and inappropriate presents being put out or maybe mugs or different things which culturally are linked to the person's gender, linked to the person's cultural beliefs, etc. It's just inappropriate.

So, again, that reminder, I suppose, that what one person thinks might be banter, if it's any way linked to an equality ground, we need to rethink that.

Julie:  And as you say, it's so important for HR and managers really to enforce to people the expectations before you get, as you say, celebrating and then somebody opens a gift and everybody's really surprised.

Caroline:  Absolutely.

Julie:  Okay. And then social media is an interesting one as well. So, what adjustments? I know we're talking about Christmas parties, but it's almost any type of employer social event. You'd really have the same expectations for people, wouldn't it be?

Caroline:  Absolutely. And I suppose it's the time of year as well that you've potentially people and they're socialising with clients. There's a lot more of that happening.

Now, I've lovely sunshine coming in on top of me here. Again, I can do nothing about the sunshine. It's just the morning of perfect combinations of everything. So, we're going to just let that roll.

But without doubt, I suppose social media and WhatsApp groups are actually equally problematic where people are posting pictures on social media.

We had an incident last week where a company did a corporate Santy day, where you went in and the kids got presents from Santy. But somebody took loads of pictures. One parent said that they didn't realise that their child's picture was going to be all over social media, etc. And basically, they had an issue with that.

So, people are getting a lot more conscious of if you're taking photos or pictures without people's consent or awareness and what you're doing with them. I suppose just being conscious of that.

And interestingly, WhatsApp groups have actually been nearly as equally problematic now where people put a joke into their friend group, maybe into another group, and then they pop it into the work group. But then somebody in the work group takes offence because it's culturally or . . . It's inappropriate in some way and somebody feels that that is a targeted comment at them. We're having that a lot more.

So, WhatsApp is actually not my friend anymore. It's raising a lot of issues, particularly linked to things like that, Julie.

Julie:  It is. And I think with WhatsApp groups, people may have set those up on their own. But the fact is they still all know each other through the employer. So, sometimes they may not have HR in the group. They may not have their manager in the group. But again, it's still a team. And then if something is shared, as you say, it still comes back to the employer again as well.

And then you've already mentioned really about some of the substance misuse that happens around this time of year. And really, it's just about trying to protect people against that.

Now, saying that, if someone does overindulge, we always have the issue of somebody going AWOL perhaps after the Christmas party. Maybe they're due to be the person that covers Boxing Day or one of those other days, Saint Stephen's Day, and next thing you know, you're down even more staff. So, how would you suggest people handle that?

Caroline:  Yeah, I think it's really important that you do contingency plan for Christmas, because it's more likely that people potentially will get sick. Something like that may happen, so I think it's really important to have a backup plan, particularly if you've got your bones of your staff already.

Just because of the nature of the time of year that it is, have that contingency plan, because ultimately there's a higher risk that that'll happen when there's fewer staff because it's Murphy's Law. So, I think it's good advice and it's opportune to encourage managers to go, "What is the contingency plan?"

For example, you may say, "Look, Julie, you can have that few days off. But the only caveat is if somebody rings in sick, I may need you to come and do some of the shift". And again, Julie knows they mightn't be able to give her the holidays otherwise. So, the person feels that they're getting a bonus by getting the holidays, but ultimately knows that they may need to come in and oblige.

I think that's just normal morale interaction with your employees, because we do find that Christmas, as I say, everybody is . . . Particularly, I feel, this year people feel a bit burnt out and everybody is like, "Are we there yet?" Even at this stage already, there seems to be a lot more of that.

So, again, I suppose it's just trying to make sure that we've got as much support for people as we can. You definitely feel it I think. There's a risk that that might be a challenge over the festive period, and we want to keep it festive. We don't want to be upsetting people's plans, etc. But I do think that's important.

And the other key thing, I suppose, linked to that, Julie, that we mentioned is planning if the office is actually fully closed, who is going to be responsible for making sure that all those things are going to be in hand.

I do think more and more so . . . We talked about office temperatures, GDPR, all those kind of things. Just make sure that that's managed properly.

Julie:  Yeah, that's again a great summary. Thank you very much.

Somebody's just asking about the five-day leave for domestic violence and whether it applies in Northern Ireland. So, I think that we can say at the moment, no, it does not. And Ireland's really one of the first to introduce this, aren't they?

Caroline:  Yeah, absolutely. The answer is no, it doesn't apply outside of the Irish jurisdiction. So, no, not at the moment, even though it's something that many companies had already introduced in Ireland, so Tesco, AIB, and others. I'm just using those as case study examples.

But I must say, over the 25 years I'm doing this job, we've had incidents often come up and employers have never been found wanting. They've always facilitated paid time off for the person, because ultimately, if it's not paid time off, it's likely that the person who is inflicting the violence will not allow them to have that time to do whatever they need.

So, I think it's one that we need to be very generous, very sensitive, very accommodating and as understanding as we can around. And I suppose even though it's not in place in Northern Ireland, it's something I definitely think would be worthy of consideration as a really good initiative for your employees.

One in four women in Ireland experience domestic violence. So, it's not a small percentage by any means of our cohort of employees. From that perspective, I think definitely one, Julie, that merits consideration. Let's put it like that.

Julie:  Yes, I think it's being looked at, and similar . . . Well, actually, I think 10 days is being discussed as well. So, again, not for this webinar, which is Irish-specific jurisdiction.

The other question that there is, is about a staff member, maybe they've been deemed unfit for work, but, as you say, you invite them to the Christmas event. They want to come in, reconnect with everybody, see what's happening. And then next thing, something happens to them at the party. So, would you as the employer be responsible for that?

Caroline:  I think you'd have to make sure that they're fit and well to come in. You have a lot of people who might be out, for example, getting cancer treatment and they make a judgement call themselves.

I think the most important thing is that you make them feel welcome and you're communicating with them at this time of year.

And I mentioned some people will be entitled to, for example, bonuses because they're linked to service. Same applies if somebody is out on maternity leave or another type of statutory leave.

I think the real aim here is that they feel included and not forgotten, because a lot of people will say, "Look, I haven't heard from anybody. So, therefore, I presume I'm not welcome", or, "I didn't get a specific invite".

So, I do think it's the time of year that people have potentially just that extra . . . They need that extra little bit of communication and that extra bit of consideration just to positively support them.

So, definitely, I would reach out, have the conversation, and they'll tell you whether or not they think they're up to it. Probably not going to be up to going on a night-out Christmas party event, but they might be up to coming in when the Kris Kindle is done or if there's a lunch or there's a get-together.

But again, that's a sensible way of having the discussion to say, "Look, do you feel up to it? Are you sure? There's no obligation to come in, but we just want you to know that you're more than welcome should you so wish to come in".

Julie:  Yeah, and I think that's great, as you said. So, if it is even someone just coming in, popping into the office to maybe get a Christmas card or take part in some smaller activity than the party, then that's great as well.

So, you had mentioned about covering over Christmas holidays and about having that Plan B in place. And so, somebody is asking about how you balance that with the right to disconnect as well. So, if you have people saying, "Great, that's us. We're off. We're burnt out. And so, we're heading off for the Christmas holidays", but you want them to be there just in case.

Caroline:  There's a big difference, I suppose, ultimately having somebody on backup that you may need them to come in. If, for example, a staff member is absent, in effect, that to me is not impinging on their right to disconnect.

The right to disconnect is more a case of that I'm sending you emails tonight, I'm expecting you to respond tonight, or I'm expecting you to work over the weekend, even though they're your days off.

 I think the approach around Christmas saying, "Look, Julie, Caroline's off and Mary's off. They're your two counterparts. You're due to come in. But if Julie can't come in for whatever reason, we may need one or two of you to cover a half a day each", or something like that, I think that's being upfront with people to know in advance and know it's an absolute last resort, but it's a crucial role that needs to be covered.

For some roles, they won't need to be covered, so it's not even an issue. But it's for those roles that are crucial to the functioning of the business that you really need to have that backup.

I think that's much better than last minute ringing somebody and they are after having a few glasses of wine, etc., and they definitely aren't in a position to come in. So, you've then no cover. That's, I think, the kind of appropriate approach.

And even if it's a really crucial role, you may say, "Well, look, Julie, we're going to give you an extra voucher to have you available on call", or an extra allowance or whatever.

And obviously, in some jobs, people will be on call formally. But I think this is just an added layer.

Julie:  Okay. Great. Thank you very much, Caroline.

Caroline:  The other thing, Julie, just in case it didn't come up, is the office temperatures. I only barely touched on it. I suppose it's one that has definitely raised its head a lot more.

Most offices now are much more open plan than they were previously, meaning that you have a lot less control over your working temperature and your working environment, etc. So, temperature has been one that has really raised its head.

So, I think that taking that HSA guideline in relation to temperature is a really good way to approach this. In some environments, we've seen the temperature dial really turned up high and that's causing an issue for menopausal people and for other colleagues within the work environment as well.

So, don't just bat it away if it comes up as an issue. It's something that's actually coming up a lot more. So, definitely, again, one worth just ticking off your list to say, "No, we're good there". But one, as I say, that has raised its head that bit more.

Julie:  It could be that difference too, Caroline, with people not used to being in the office all the time. And then when you come in, you're used to your own surroundings. As you say, then, the differences in temperature, people's different conditions as well.

I think that, Caroline, we've put you through your paces. So, thank you very much for all of that advice today.

Caroline: Not at all. And apologies about the door and the light and the sunshine. It's a good complaint, but it's one I haven't had in quite a while. Thank you so much, Julie, and all the attendees today for your patience in relation to that.

Julie:  Well, I think it was worth the wait, Caroline. So, thank you very much.

Caroline:  Thank you.

Julie:  All right, everybody. You will just see as well that we've got The HR Suite's details up there on the screen so that you know a little bit more about Caroline and her organisation.

And then we just want to thank everybody as well for attending. But before you go, just remember that there will be a recording and it will be available for you to watch. Or if you prefer, you can listen to the podcast as well.

Then if we just go on to the next slide. Thanks, Maria. Just want to let you know that we've talked a lot about the different dilemmas that you can face and how much eLearning and making your staff aware can help. So, we have a couple of eLearning packages.

"Social Media in the Workplace," which will help employees understand how the misuse of social media, including WhatsApp, can impact them and their employers, and share practical examples and useful tips on how to use social media responsibly. So, again, great title and something that's needed in most workplaces, as Caroline had mentioned.

And "Managing Your Team's Health & Wellbeing". As Caroline had said, everybody is feeling a little bit burnt out getting ready to approach the Christmas holidays. So, this course is designed to highlight the importance of managing your team's health and wellbeing, and to equip managers with the confidence and skills to have those conversations sensitively and effectively. Again, especially with topics like domestic abuse as well.

So, if you want to register your interest in our eLearning on behalf of your organisation, you can email our sales team directly at glenn@legal-island.com.

And if you're interested in having your own company-branded compliance management training platform so you can check scores so that you know, again, when people completed the training, you can track it as well and do your reports, and you have unlimited access as well for all your staff, you can find out more about the AppLI LMS system.

All right. So, thanks, Caroline, for an informative session and for answering all of those questions, as always, even though there were a couple of little hiccups along the way.

Thanks as well to Maria for offering tech support and doing those polls as well. And thank you to everybody for attending. I look forward to seeing you at our next webinar.

See you next time. Best wishes for a happy, healthy holiday season. And hopefully, none of these dilemmas catch you out. Thanks very much.

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